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<head><meta charset="utf-8"><title>reboot meeting 2019.09.03 · t-compiler/wg-polonius · Zulip Chat Archive</title></head>
<h2>Stream: <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/index.html">t-compiler/wg-polonius</a></h2>
<h3>Topic: <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html">reboot meeting 2019.09.03</a></h3>

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<a name="174819284"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174819284" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> lqd <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174819284">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:02)</a>:</h4>
<p>hello friends from <span class="user-group-mention" data-user-group-id="1184">@WG-polonius</span> :) IIRC today should be the reboot meeting</p>



<a name="174819293"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174819293" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174819293">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:02)</a>:</h4>
<p>Hola</p>



<a name="174819374"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174819374" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> lqd <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174819374">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>I had posted a couple notes before <a href="https://hackmd.io/wGwGGRCKStiWBq9voP4e2A?view" target="_blank" title="https://hackmd.io/wGwGGRCKStiWBq9voP4e2A?view">here</a> about my understanding / the current status of things I remember</p>



<a name="174819404"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174819404" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> lqd <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174819404">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>I don't know if any of you had the time to read it (I know Albin has and made some comments)</p>



<a name="174819491"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174819491" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> lqd <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174819491">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>but it lacked details on what they were working on, they know about it more than I do :)</p>



<a name="174819561"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174819561" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Amanda Stjerna <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174819561">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>Excellent question!</p>



<a name="174819572"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174819572" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> lqd <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174819572">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:05)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116009">@nikomatsakis</span> did you want to know something in particular ? :)</p>



<a name="174819729"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174819729" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> lqd <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174819729">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>at least I can give an update on what I have been doing since coming back from vacation: not much besides writing up these notes, and trying to better understand the structure of the OOM case I mentioned before (to assess "how problematic" it is)</p>



<a name="174819807"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174819807" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174819807">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>sorry, just had a phone call come in</p>



<a name="174819808"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174819808" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174819808">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>mm</p>



<a name="174819837"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174819837" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174819837">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>let me skim those notes <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116113">@lqd</span> made but I guess I mostly wanted to kind of inventory the things that were going on and get resynchronized</p>



<a name="174819870"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174819870" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> lqd <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174819870">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:09)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="204115">@Albin Stjerna</span> are you still stuck on move errors btw ? (since I think you commented about that in the notes)</p>



<a name="174819883"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174819883" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174819883">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:09)</a>:</h4>
<p>one thing I think is maybe missing from your list, <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116113">@lqd</span>, is the potential changes to make polonius more precise, right? I'm trying to remember if we had a pithy name for those</p>



<a name="174819887"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174819887" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174819887">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:09)</a>:</h4>
<p>basically not propagating the full subset, but only "equality"</p>



<a name="174819896"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174819896" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> lqd <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174819896">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:09)</a>:</h4>
<p>it's a bit down in the doc</p>



<a name="174819899"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174819899" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174819899">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:09)</a>:</h4>
<p>oh wait</p>



<a name="174819901"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174819901" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174819901">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:09)</a>:</h4>
<p>that's under the II section</p>



<a name="174819905"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174819905" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> lqd <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174819905">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:09)</a>:</h4>
<p>right</p>



<a name="174819947"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174819947" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Amanda Stjerna <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174819947">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:10)</a>:</h4>
<p>Err, I have a preliminary idea for something that would probably work, but it's literally in pencil in a notebook and I wrote it down at 3 am when I couldn't sleep last week</p>



<a name="174819973"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174819973" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174819973">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:10)</a>:</h4>
<p>this list is really fantastic</p>



<a name="174819980"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174819980" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Amanda Stjerna <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174819980">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:10)</a>:</h4>
<p>But I cut initialization errors from my thesis, and I want to finish it first</p>



<a name="174819982"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174819982" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> lqd <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174819982">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:10)</a>:</h4>
<p>Matthew has looked into the last of the ui test suite failing  test (an overflow in fact generation) and it should be easy to fix (and an optimisation IIUC) once Albin's work is done</p>



<a name="174820008"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174820008" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174820008">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>OK. I've been doing a little bit of working on that "book" -- I think it's getting pretty important that we document better the rules, esp. as we talk about growing to other parts of the borrow check</p>



<a name="174820018"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174820018" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> lqd <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174820018">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>agreed</p>



<a name="174820025"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174820025" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Matthew Jasper <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174820025">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>The run pass test is now a ui test, so it's not actually the last</p>



<a name="174820031"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174820031" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174820031">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>Also, I unwisely agreed to give a presentation on Polonius for RustBeltRust <span aria-label="scared" class="emoji emoji-1f628" role="img" title="scared">:scared:</span> so I thought it would be useful for me to try and work on how to explain things :)</p>



<a name="174820042"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174820042" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Amanda Stjerna <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174820042">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm actually working on is wrapping up a workable first draft of my thesis. My plan is to deliver it to my subject reviewer (and you! to the extent you have the time to look at it) on Monday, and before that I need:<br>
- some light writing<br>
- finish my re-run of the hackish Polonius-crater-monster-run that's been going for two weeks now (now with box plots) (async)<br>
- figure out if I need to change the logic of var_maybe_initialized_at and if it still produces correct region_live_at if I go with the more precise analysis that <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116009">@nikomatsakis</span> suggested in their review of my PR</p>



<a name="174820106"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174820106" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> lqd <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174820106">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:12)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116118">@Matthew Jasper</span> it already was a UI test not a run-pass test IIRC ?</p>



<a name="174820131"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174820131" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Matthew Jasper <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174820131">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:12)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm talking about the OoM in 1.2</p>



<a name="174820199"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174820199" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> lqd <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174820199">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:13)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116118">@Matthew Jasper</span> ah ok, yeah I think 2-3 of the run-pass cases were "interesting", maybe this one was the only hard blocker at the time</p>



<a name="174820219"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174820219" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Amanda Stjerna <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174820219">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>Also, I'd be happy to cannibalise my thesis into the book of course</p>



<a name="174820280"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174820280" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174820280">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>So <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="204115">@Albin Stjerna</span> have you hacked up some more precise version of <code>var_maybe_initialized_at</code>? Would it be helpful to you to land the version we have and iterate?</p>



<a name="174820281"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174820281" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174820281">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'd be ok with that</p>



<a name="174820282"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174820282" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> lqd <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174820282">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:14)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116009">@nikomatsakis</span> we can also help coming up with content for docs/book/rustbeltrust</p>



<a name="174820320"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174820320" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Amanda Stjerna <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174820320">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:15)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116009">@nikomatsakis</span> Good question</p>



<a name="174820364"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174820364" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Amanda Stjerna <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174820364">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:15)</a>:</h4>
<p>The issue here really is that we don't have a reliable test suite</p>



<a name="174820431"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174820431" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Amanda Stjerna <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174820431">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:16)</a>:</h4>
<p>So what I'd have to do is roll back the commit removing the region_live_at facts, try calculating it, comparing, and then moving on if it turns out to work</p>



<a name="174820440"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174820440" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> lqd <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174820440">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:16)</a>:</h4>
<p>can we swap some part of rustc with $albinsThing and use rustc's test suites ?</p>



<a name="174820449"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174820449" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Amanda Stjerna <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174820449">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:16)</a>:</h4>
<p>That would be nice</p>



<a name="174820459"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174820459" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174820459">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:16)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm confused</p>



<a name="174820472"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174820472" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174820472">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>but it sounds a lot to me like we should land what we have</p>



<a name="174820475"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174820475" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174820475">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>and then iterate</p>



<a name="174820491"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174820491" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174820491">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:17)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>can we swap some part of rustc with $albinsThing and use rustc's test suites ?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>like, isn't this what <code>-Zpolonius</code> does?</p>



<a name="174820492"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174820492" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Amanda Stjerna <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174820492">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>Well, it might make sense to me</p>



<a name="174820502"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174820502" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174820502">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>I mean I'm just generally in favor of getting things into master and out of PRs :)</p>



<a name="174820510"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174820510" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174820510">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>as long as we open issues and track follow-up work ..</p>



<a name="174820565"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174820565" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> lqd <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174820565">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:18)</a>:</h4>
<p>are we talking move analysis/liveness ?</p>



<a name="174820574"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174820574" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Amanda Stjerna <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174820574">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:18)</a>:</h4>
<p>I know that what I have produces almost literally the same var_maybe_initialized_on_exit and literally the same region_live_as</p>



<a name="174820580"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174820580" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Amanda Stjerna <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174820580">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:18)</a>:</h4>
<p>If that helps with the decision</p>



<a name="174820585"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174820585" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174820585">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:18)</a>:</h4>
<p>We're talking specifically about <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/polonius/pull/110" target="_blank" title="https://github.com/rust-lang/polonius/pull/110">https://github.com/rust-lang/polonius/pull/110</a></p>



<a name="174820616"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174820616" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174820616">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think it's very close; I had a few suggestions for alternate formulations of the relations, which I would still like to pursue</p>



<a name="174820620"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174820620" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> lqd <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174820620">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>yeah then the existing tests can be used ?</p>



<a name="174820623"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174820623" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174820623">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>(but it's not very different)</p>



<a name="174820629"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174820629" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Amanda Stjerna <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174820629">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>But maybe it makes sense, because regardless the iteration would happen in Polonius</p>



<a name="174820642"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174820642" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Amanda Stjerna <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174820642">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>So we <em>can</em> merge my Rust PR</p>



<a name="174820650"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174820650" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Amanda Stjerna <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174820650">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>But only after releasing a new Polonius</p>



<a name="174820651"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174820651" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174820651">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>Uh, also true</p>



<a name="174820736"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174820736" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174820736">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:20)</a>:</h4>
<p>I see, yeah, so we land your PR, land the rustc PR, and then we consider whether to tweak the rules (and we can compare the output after the changes to the output before, as well as of course running the rustc integration tests)</p>



<a name="174820776"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174820776" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Amanda Stjerna <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174820776">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:20)</a>:</h4>
<p>Sounds good; I think they are a much better test for if things work than "does this change the input facts from what we had before"</p>



<a name="174820795"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174820795" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174820795">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:21)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yes, ultimately the rustc integration tests are the best, though it's interesting to do the detailed comparison too</p>



<a name="174820798"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174820798" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Amanda Stjerna <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174820798">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:21)</a>:</h4>
<p>They said, having never run the integration tests with Polonius</p>



<a name="174820813"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174820813" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> lqd <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174820813">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:21)</a>:</h4>
<p>it would be nice to check if generating facts is faster with this PR</p>



<a name="174820830"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174820830" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> lqd <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174820830">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:21)</a>:</h4>
<p>(as I think it should be)</p>



<a name="174820839"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174820839" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174820839">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:21)</a>:</h4>
<p>OK, so, I'm happy to just land <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/polonius/pull/110" target="_blank" title="https://github.com/rust-lang/polonius/pull/110">https://github.com/rust-lang/polonius/pull/110</a> now</p>



<a name="174820851"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174820851" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Amanda Stjerna <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174820851">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:21)</a>:</h4>
<p>Good!</p>



<a name="174820918"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174820918" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174820918">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:22)</a>:</h4>
<p>I will then assign myself a task to try and write something in the rust-book documenting it (because I want to :P)</p>



<a name="174820927"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174820927" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174820927">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:22)</a>:</h4>
<p>which I think should then enable us to talk a bit about possible changes</p>



<a name="174820948"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174820948" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174820948">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:22)</a>:</h4>
<p>in any case, those changes should be (largely?) local to polonius, since I <em>think</em> the facts rustc generates won't change (though I guess we might tweak something)</p>



<a name="174820990"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174820990" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> lqd <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174820990">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:23)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116009">@nikomatsakis</span> last time you mentioned wanting Polonius to be in "slow boil" mode, could you explain what you meant or what your plans were ? (since we're close to being out of time)</p>



<a name="174820991"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174820991" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Amanda Stjerna <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174820991">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think so too</p>



<a name="174821004"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174821004" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174821004">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:23)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="204115">@Albin Stjerna</span> did you update the PR with more extended comments on the input facts, like I mentioned?</p>



<a name="174821059"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174821059" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174821059">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:24)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116113">@lqd</span> by "slow boil" I meant roughly like what we're doing now -- that is, we're still making improvements, but we're not trying to spin up a <strong>big effort</strong></p>



<a name="174821065"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174821065" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Amanda Stjerna <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174821065">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>Let me check</p>



<a name="174821093"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174821093" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174821093">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:24)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>we can also help coming up with content for docs/book/rustbeltrust</p>
</blockquote>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116113">@lqd</span> who was "we" here btw :)</p>



<a name="174821107"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174821107" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> lqd <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174821107">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>I volunteer</p>



<a name="174821111"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174821111" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174821111">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>one thing that would be good to try and write is to talk a bit about the inputs</p>



<a name="174821118"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174821118" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> lqd <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174821118">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>(but probably other people can help of course)</p>



<a name="174821131"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174821131" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174821131">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>this is to some extent commented in the source already</p>



<a name="174821200"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174821200" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> lqd <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174821200">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:26)</a>:</h4>
<p>documenting how the inputs are generated would be nice</p>



<a name="174821223"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174821223" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> lqd <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174821223">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:26)</a>:</h4>
<p>like you all did with the chalkification of rustc, describing how to lower to chalk rules etc</p>



<a name="174821247"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174821247" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174821247">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:26)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think what would be good is</p>



<a name="174821268"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174821268" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174821268">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>making some rust snippet and kind of using it to illustrate what each thing means</p>



<a name="174821280"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174821280" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174821280">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>also, we should probably spend some effort getting our terminology good</p>



<a name="174821285"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174821285" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174821285">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>hmm -- that might also want to be refactorings in the source</p>



<a name="174821303"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174821303" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174821303">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>e.g. I was happy with "origin" for region -- I think that's what we agreed on? or was it provenance <span aria-label="stuck out tongue" class="emoji emoji-1f61d" role="img" title="stuck out tongue">:stuck_out_tongue:</span> ...</p>



<a name="174821310"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174821310" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> lqd <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174821310">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>yeah I mentioned refactoring and terminology a bit in the notes as something that's partially decided on but not implemented</p>



<a name="174821385"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174821385" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> lqd <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174821385">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:28)</a>:</h4>
<p>(what's everyone's availability for the "foreseeable future" btw ?)</p>



<a name="174821408"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174821408" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Amanda Stjerna <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174821408">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:29)</a>:</h4>
<p>As I remember it we agreed on provenance?</p>



<a name="174821422"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174821422" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Amanda Stjerna <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174821422">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:29)</a>:</h4>
<p>Or maybe I'm not getting the joke</p>



<a name="174821424"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174821424" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174821424">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:29)</a>:</h4>
<p>looks like we <a href="#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler.2Fwg-polonius/topic/what.20to.20call.20regions" title="#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler.2Fwg-polonius/topic/what.20to.20call.20regions">said provenance</a>, though I sort of like origin ;) well, we can bikeshed it. But I'd like to actually push those terms through the polonius codebase at least, and be consistent.</p>



<a name="174821434"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174821434" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174821434">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:29)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>Or maybe I'm not getting the joke</p>
</blockquote>
<p>the joke is more that we keep going back and forth :)</p>



<a name="174821436"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174821436" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> lqd <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174821436">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:29)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm still torn :)</p>



<a name="174821442"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174821442" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174821442">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:29)</a>:</h4>
<p>and that I literally cannot remember :)</p>



<a name="174821477"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174821477" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Amanda Stjerna <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174821477">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:29)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yes, we should also not have Hybrid execute the full initialisation and liveness analysis twice</p>



<a name="174821483"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174821483" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Amanda Stjerna <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174821483">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:30)</a>:</h4>
<p>And a few other things</p>



<a name="174821541"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174821541" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174821541">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:30)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>looks like we <a href="#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler.2Fwg-polonius/topic/what.20to.20call.20regions" title="#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler.2Fwg-polonius/topic/what.20to.20call.20regions">said provenance</a>, though I sort of like origin ;) well, we can bikeshed it. But I'd like to actually push those terms through the polonius codebase at least, and be consistent.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>the other thing to reconsider are the names for the various relations</p>



<a name="174821553"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174821553" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174821553">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:30)</a>:</h4>
<p>e.g. I think maybe we still use "outlives" in some places etc</p>



<a name="174821568"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174821568" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Amanda Stjerna <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174821568">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:30)</a>:</h4>
<p>Such as the outlives relation you mean?</p>



<a name="174821574"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174821574" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174821574">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:30)</a>:</h4>
<p>right</p>



<a name="174821575"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174821575" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> lqd <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174821575">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:30)</a>:</h4>
<p>renaming <code>requires</code>to <code>contains</code>is the one I remember</p>



<a name="174821588"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174821588" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Amanda Stjerna <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174821588">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:30)</a>:</h4>
<p>Also a few you suggested in the code review</p>



<a name="174821594"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174821594" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Amanda Stjerna <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174821594">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:30)</a>:</h4>
<p>(I made notes of them)</p>



<a name="174821646"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174821646" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Amanda Stjerna <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174821646">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:31)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>(what's everyone's availability for the "foreseeable future" btw ?)</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Unknown, but I'll be able to answer properly in less than a month. I want to keep working on Polonius though because it's been fun</p>



<a name="174821701"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174821701" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> lqd <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174821701">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:32)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="204115">@Albin Stjerna</span> thanks for the answer, glad to hear it :)</p>



<a name="174821721"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174821721" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> lqd <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174821721">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:32)</a>:</h4>
<p>I don't know if I managed to convey that the "illegal subset relation errors" work and the "optimization" work are almost deadlocking each other</p>



<a name="174821736"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174821736" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Amanda Stjerna <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174821736">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:32)</a>:</h4>
<p>Are they?</p>



<a name="174821761"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174821761" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> lqd <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174821761">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:33)</a>:</h4>
<p>yeah, depending on the way to implement them, some data needs to be computed (or not)</p>



<a name="174821762"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174821762" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Amanda Stjerna <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174821762">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:33)</a>:</h4>
<p>Oh I also have a flow chart of the entire analysis</p>



<a name="174821768"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174821768" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Amanda Stjerna <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174821768">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:33)</a>:</h4>
<p>(spoilers for my thesis)</p>



<a name="174821771"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174821771" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> lqd <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174821771">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:33)</a>:</h4>
<p>that data is the cause of polonius "slowness"</p>



<a name="174821776"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174821776" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Amanda Stjerna <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174821776">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:33)</a>:</h4>
<p>In case that's useful for anything</p>



<a name="174821787"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174821787" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Amanda Stjerna <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174821787">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:33)</a>:</h4>
<p>Ah, I see</p>



<a name="174821895"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174821895" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> lqd <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174821895">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:34)</a>:</h4>
<p>the OOM case might be another concern, but impacting the current state, not the future</p>



<a name="174821917"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174821917" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> lqd <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174821917">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:35)</a>:</h4>
<p>(maybe it's nothing to be concerned about and easily fixable, we'll see)</p>



<a name="174821957"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174821957" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174821957">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:35)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>Oh I also have a flow chart of the entire analysis</p>
</blockquote>
<p>neat</p>



<a name="174821976"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174821976" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174821976">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:35)</a>:</h4>
<p>(sorry, was afk for a few minutes)</p>



<a name="174822067"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174822067" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174822067">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:36)</a>:</h4>
<p>ok, well, this was a good meeting, I guess we have some next steps</p>
<ul>
<li>me: land <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="204115">@Albin Stjerna</span> PRs</li>
<li><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="204115">@Albin Stjerna</span> write thesis</li>
<li><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116113">@lqd</span> writes input facts and an example</li>
<li>me (maybe): tries to write out the rules from albins's PR and some suggested edits </li>
</ul>
<p>?</p>



<a name="174822100"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174822100" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> lqd <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174822100">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:37)</a>:</h4>
<p>SGTM</p>



<a name="174822109"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174822109" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> lqd <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174822109">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:37)</a>:</h4>
<p>I guess we can talk about those other points I mentioned async</p>



<a name="174822118"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174822118" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174822118">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:37)</a>:</h4>
<p>as for availability:</p>
<p>I'm not 100% sure how much time to devote to polonius, but I am quite determined that starting this week I'm going to be carving out some days to hack on rustc in general. I intend  to focus on traits, but I think I will put some energy into polonius too, since I think both are pretty important.</p>



<a name="174822159"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174822159" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Amanda Stjerna <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174822159">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:38)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116009">@nikomatsakis</span> I have pushed the updates to all the facts now. I haven't written documentation for the var_initialized_at-calculating method yet.</p>



<a name="174822174"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174822174" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174822174">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:38)</a>:</h4>
<p>yeah in particular I want to get the illegal subset relation + more precise analysis stuff figured out</p>



<a name="174822195"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174822195" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174822195">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:38)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="116009">nikomatsakis</span> I have pushed the updates to all the facts now. I haven't written documentation for the var_initialized_at-calculating method yet.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I don't remember what docs I asked for but I think they can be moved to issues</p>



<a name="174822202"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174822202" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Amanda Stjerna <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174822202">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:38)</a>:</h4>
<p>This one: <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/polonius/pull/110#discussion_r318557584" target="_blank" title="https://github.com/rust-lang/polonius/pull/110#discussion_r318557584">https://github.com/rust-lang/polonius/pull/110#discussion_r318557584</a></p>



<a name="174822223"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174822223" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> lqd <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174822223">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:38)</a>:</h4>
<p>awesome, good to hear Niko :)</p>



<a name="174822224"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174822224" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Amanda Stjerna <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174822224">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:38)</a>:</h4>
<p>Sure, I'll make an issue right now</p>



<a name="174822381"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174822381" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> lqd <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174822381">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:40)</a>:</h4>
<p>(I have forgotten to talk about my own availability: same as usual, I'm not ready to let go of Polonius either as I've spent a bunch of time on it and will love seeing it to fruition; of course, if other more pressing work is needed elsewhere, I can also devote my time to that)</p>



<a name="174822436"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174822436" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Amanda Stjerna <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174822436">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:41)</a>:</h4>
<p>Also, it makes sense to wait I guess, because both the value of the relation it computes will probably change, _and_ it will probably be refactored into the general initialisation analysis and so have a different return value</p>



<a name="174822439"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174822439" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Amanda Stjerna <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174822439">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:41)</a>:</h4>
<p>(there is an architectural decision waiting here I think)</p>



<a name="174822627"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot%20meeting%202019.09.03/near/174822627" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> lqd <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/186049-t-compiler/wg-polonius/topic/reboot.20meeting.202019.2E09.2E03.html#174822627">(Sep 03 2019 at 19:44)</a>:</h4>
<p>(thanks everyone <span aria-label="wave" class="emoji emoji-1f44b" role="img" title="wave">:wave:</span> :)</p>



<hr><p>Last updated: Aug 07 2021 at 22:04 UTC</p>
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